Monday, February 05, 2007

Comments on Pramukh Swami post

There are a few new comments on my post on Pramukh Swami. Summary:
My central arguments have not been answered: BAPS is a personality cult without much of a visible succession plan. Comparisons with Swadhyay Parivar may be inapt but they seem to be fair at this point.

One clarification: Writer of this comment has studied his post graduation while being in one of the hostels constructed by BAPS, and that is why this person is aware of discourses given out by Pramukh Swami Maharaj and his activities. Being in BAPS hostel do not make it compulsory to be his follower. Although it is encouraged, but not forced.

1. Is Pramukh Swami a Businessman ?
2. Is BAPS a Personality Cult ?

1. Is Pramukh Swami a Businessman ?

Please tell me of the following Oxford Dictionary Meanings, what exactly this blog means by the word "Business". If business means doing his own duty(work to be done or matters to be attanded to), then yes, pramukh swami or ANY person doing his duties is a businessman. Even writer of this blog and one putting comments are also businessman

But if by business you mean "commerce for making monetory profits" or "trade". Then I would take the stand that pramukh swami is not that kind of businessman.

The funds he raises, he uses for followers and the socity in general but not for personal profits.

Still if anybody is sceptical, I would recommend bringing proofs of that kind of monetory ownership rather than just making speculative assumptions.

As you have said Pramukh swami signs all big decision.. But that makes him a MANAGER not the OWNER

And sorry, Pramukh swami is a CEO with ZERO salary

(i still agree upon good facilities given to an 87 year old man, but to me they are legitimate if he continues doing his duties)

I would like you to go through the hardships that Pramukh Swami (or any other saint for that matter) would have gone through in their young ages.

However I do agree and recommend using the word "Manager" (so as to avoid ownership and beneficiary notions) if the owner of the blog feels OK.

I also agree with you on the matter of how the succession is to be planned, but I hope that there will not be any political system. Thats not simply way things happen in hinduism which is primarily faith centric.

You said BAPS do not come closer to succession history of Popes.

As far as I know, Pramukh Swami is Fifth Successor as a Guru. (and again as it would happen for any religion (incl. christianity), some (less known) branches have emerged. But that has not in any way lead to disintegration of BAPS. (I would recommend the Author of the blog to go through some history of BAPS)

Quoting the Oxford Dictinary for ready reference:


• noun 1 a person’s regular occupation or trade. 2 work to be done or matters to be attended to. 3 a person’s concern. 4 commercial activity. 5 a commercial organization. 6 informal a difficult or problematic matter. 7 (the business) informal an excellent person or thing. 8 actions other than dialogue in a play.

— PHRASES in business informal operating or able to begin operation. in the business of engaged in or prepared to engage in. like nobody’s business informal extraordinarily. mind one’s own business avoid meddling in other people’s affairs.

— ORIGIN Old English, anxiety (from BUSY + -NESS); the sense a duty, from which other senses developed, dates from Middle English.

2. Is BAPS a Personality Cult ?

Is it a Personality Cult or a Guru-Shishya tradition. ???

In Hinduism there is always a system of a guru guiding his followers. Take Shankaracharyas, Vaishnavaites (various acharyas) or any noticable religious institutions. Current Guru is considered revered and respected.

"Whenever a Guru-Shishya tredition NEGATES the supreme authority more important than Guru, and takes into account ONLY the Guru" then you can call it a Personality Cult.

Give me a single quotation by Pramukh Swami Maharaj (recorded or otherwise) that he is more importent than the philosophy of Swaminarayan. (I said "he quotes swaminarayan" precisily because of that reason). Of those discourses that I have read/heard, I never have come across such remarks that Pramukh swami is in anyway larger figure than Swaminarayan. (I outrightly dismiss any such beliefs if they exist)

The ideology of BAPS puts Pramukh Swami as an ideal devotee that one can take as an example..

Like for example Gandhi, Sardar Patel are National Ideals But still they are not more important than Nation - Bharatmata or call it Democracy.

Like that A guru can be an Ideal to be learned from But NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF.

If this ideology motivates one to think that BAPS is a personality cult then that may mean one should not take any Ideals by observing any proven saint/leader.

I am favouring BAPS and Pramukh swami only for the reason that they have motivated me to do something for socity upto any extent one can.. (still i cling to my stand that I am not their follower.. I am just a learner)
I totally agree with Mr Uday. This blog is to just stop the "good work" that Pramukhswami Maharj is doing. Human's nature is to criticize the good work. People will do because of lots reasons 1) May be they are not part of it 2) May be nobody is listing to them 3) May be they are affiliated with other organization and do not want to understand the truth so on.... My opinion being very small person (lay man) : I would like to think big and think something good....... I have watched this organization doing every day better and better. People who can not think for other then themselves , should start thinking what is the "Goal of their life"? Having opinion is not bad at all. Doing something for others is a big thing and on top of doing something for others and not stopping others for doing "right" or "wrong". Just do the right thing. That’s what I have seen in this organization. I do not mind to call him as good manager. I think even between husband and wife one is a follower and one can be a good manager. So simply saying : I think do something that can help somebody. Please do not stop any good work. Not only with this religion or not only with this organization. “Do the right things”. Let other do the right thing. Try to put smile on others. Life is too short to worry about all these…Again it is only my opinion……
I came to know recently one other organization who tried to convince me that they are doing better then BAPS. I was laughing inside why somebody has to tell me who is doing better then somebody else…well time has shown and will show....we trust in what our Guru does.
If we follow the root of Hinduism then
God (Bhagvan)
Matru devo Bhava
Pitru Devo Bhava
Guru Devo Bhava
Atthiti Devo bhava

It is true the people who follow these rules (belive or not) are condiered good according to vedas. So there is no doubt in my mind that people who are followers of Pramukh Swami Maharaj they are doing part of their goals in their life.

When we talk abotu Money...I am surprised to even see that why to cinsder anything that is good with business. Are you the businessman of your family? No...

Before we ask the question...we should always think why we are asking this question. Regarding to Karma Theory that Swadhya parivar follow....we do not even ask this type of question.

I do not agree with the comment that Pramukhswami signs the big ticket. It is not true. It shows your poor knowledge about how trust system works. Nothing against you. Trust has the Power not Pramukh Swami. another thing when in our family it is very difficult to keep control and direct family members in own direction then here we are talking about 800 sadhus and millions of devotees...whose hearts are answers to questions are within. I am true Hindu. Again i belive in Karma Theory as well. I have studid this organization very closely and Swadhyaya Parivar as well. I still think this organization is doing right thing.
Well hope this does nto offend anybody here but i think we should not talk about religion it needs real understanding.

Sorry again If I have heart anybody's feelings here.
If we study our hindu scripture guru directs to god, but I feel trust put more emphasis to guru then god. Some people satisfied with guru name not by god name..look for history if any guru statues being prayed everyday
when I am at temple, I see the only goal of BAPS is to raise fund. I do not see any thoughts are delivered for uplift of human. There might be thousands of temples and millions of ppl working for temple, but Let me ask, How many people's mind have changed? Is there any improvement in quality like, hardworking, selfrespect, respect for others, honesty ?
Pramukh Swami is te Bait BAPS uses to trap inocent followers. I feel sad bcoz Pramukh Swami is the spiritual leader one can look upto but people around him are the cult. Free BAPS from these men and it will be as pure wen it was started by HDH Shastriji Maharaj
Hinduism there is always a system of a guru guiding his followers. Take Shankaracharyas, Vaishnavaites (various acharyas) or any noticable religious institutions. Current Guru is considered revered and respected.
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